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Saoa Scum
Judge Enterprises
Li3 Federation
1
   |
Posted - 2013.02.08 22:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:1: I love how organized your post is, and how its not some angry rant like so many people do when they first post feedback. 2: Devs know about the spawning issue, and they're working on fixing for next build. 3: A major graphical update is coming, with trees and vegetation. 4: I strongly disagree with the heavy nerf. HMG heavies are suppose to be unstoppable killing machines in close range, but their weakness is long range; learn to exploit that weakness. ARs, snipers, and lasers all have better range than the HMG. Skilled mass driver users and High tier AR users can take out HMG heavies at close range. Also keep in mind the massive ISK cost of playing as a heavy suit with heavy weapons compared to other suits, that is an important balancing factor most people neglect to consider. Recently there was an interview with the devs regarding upcoming changes in the future, you may be interested https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=55224
Just one problem i see with the heavies with their so-called close range... it aint that close.... and what about those heavies with AR?... |
Saoa Scum
Judge Enterprises
Li3 Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 23:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
in all sense that amount of dmg they can take more is too big of advantage compared to my faster moving strafing... i will get hit no matter how much or good i bunnyjump/strafe (unless im lucky or they aim like crap). Now hit box is kind of messed up so its really hard to know for sure... but i sure do get the feeling that i need to unload almost a full clip at a distance when they only need to get a few hits in, headshot helps ofc but not enough, but as i said hard to tell for sure since hitbox is messed (i see i hit them but doesnt do any dmg)
Now if heavies were restricted to heavy weapons i could agree of them being super-duperkilla machines in close range (HMG)...like the shotgun. but they are too efficient at a good distance compared to the maps we are playing at. |
Saoa Scum
Judge Enterprises
Li3 Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 11:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Saoa Scum wrote:in all sense that amount of dmg they can take more is too big of advantage compared to my faster moving strafing... i will get hit no matter how much or good i bunnyjump/strafe (unless im lucky or they aim like crap). Now hit box is kind of messed up so its really hard to know for sure... but i sure do get the feeling that i need to unload almost a full clip at a distance when they only need to get a few hits in, headshot helps ofc but not enough, but as i said hard to tell for sure since hitbox is messed (i see i hit them but doesnt do any dmg)
Now if heavies were restricted to heavy weapons i could agree of them being super-duperkilla machines in close range (HMG)...like the shotgun. but they are too efficient at a good distance compared to the maps we are playing at. A standard or militia assault rifle can deal 775 damage in only 2 seconds. 750 RPM / 60 (60 secs per minute) = 12.5 RPS X 31 damage = 387.5 per seconds. 387.5 X 2 = 775 damage in 2 seconds. Don't underestimate how much damage you can deal in a very short amount of time if you actually land your hits, this is amplified if you land headshots. Before calling for something to be nerfed, you should always always always use it yourself to understand the costs and drawbacks.
Now do the same math but the other way around, a heavy with a AR would win that battle 9 out of 10 times since he can kill the assault guy in 0.5sec.... and i need 2sec... no matter how much i jump or strafe .
Now im not calling for a heavy suit nerf i like it that theres a "tankish" kind of suit, but however if they added either ammo or a weapon thats more effective against armor then shields it would counter that fact.
As it is now i just avoid certain areas of the map cause i know there is a heavy dude there, cause up close im screwed. Wich means they can "guard" all of the objectives very effectivly on some maps.
To say its "balanced" as it is now is just being ignorant, but gimme a counter and ill adapt.
If you want we could test this as well... i use a heavy suit with an AR and you use a assault suit with an AR, lets stay at a distance and have some things to take cover behind so you can "use your speed to your advantage" and lets see who will stand as the winner.
And lately ive even started to see snipers in heavy suit, that says alot doesnt it? |
Saoa Scum
Judge Enterprises
Li3 Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 11:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Saoa Scum wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Saoa Scum wrote:in all sense that amount of dmg they can take more is too big of advantage compared to my faster moving strafing... i will get hit no matter how much or good i bunnyjump/strafe (unless im lucky or they aim like crap). Now hit box is kind of messed up so its really hard to know for sure... but i sure do get the feeling that i need to unload almost a full clip at a distance when they only need to get a few hits in, headshot helps ofc but not enough, but as i said hard to tell for sure since hitbox is messed (i see i hit them but doesnt do any dmg)
Now if heavies were restricted to heavy weapons i could agree of them being super-duperkilla machines in close range (HMG)...like the shotgun. but they are too efficient at a good distance compared to the maps we are playing at. A standard or militia assault rifle can deal 775 damage in only 2 seconds. 750 RPM / 60 (60 secs per minute) = 12.5 RPS X 31 damage = 387.5 per seconds. 387.5 X 2 = 775 damage in 2 seconds. Don't underestimate how much damage you can deal in a very short amount of time if you actually land your hits, this is amplified if you land headshots. Before calling for something to be nerfed, you should always always always use it yourself to understand the costs and drawbacks. Now do the same math but the other way around, a heavy with a AR would win that battle 9 out of 10 times since he can kill the assault guy in 0.5sec.... and i need 2sec... no matter how much i jump or strafe . Now im not calling for a heavy suit nerf i like it that theres a "tankish" kind of suit, but however if they added either ammo or a weapon thats more effective against armor then shields it would counter that fact. As it is now i just avoid certain areas of the map cause i know there is a heavy dude there, cause up close im screwed. Wich means they can "guard" all of the objectives very effectivly on some maps. To say its "balanced" as it is now is just being ignorant, but gimme a counter and ill adapt. If you want we could test this as well... i use a heavy suit with an AR and you use a assault suit with an AR, lets stay at a distance and have some things to take cover behind so you can "use your speed to your advantage" and lets see who will stand as the winner. And lately ive even started to see snipers in heavy suit, that says alot doesnt it? And that heavy with the AR still gets blapped by the scout with a shotgun. Rock/paper/shotgun design for the win.
I doubt it, unless the heavy guy aims terribly, he would need like... 4 hits to kill that scout? |
Saoa Scum
Judge Enterprises
Li3 Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 11:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
aaah but imagen a heavy guy using the same shotgun... he would need like a third of a hit?... :P |
Saoa Scum
Judge Enterprises
Li3 Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 11:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
No you are right i have never tried to hit a scout with a shotgun, but however ive done it several times with an AR and most of the times i end up dead, and i dont know about the situation with a heavy suit since im not using them. Would he still get killed in one shot by that shotgun if he has 2 complex armorplates to counter that? |
Saoa Scum
Judge Enterprises
Li3 Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 11:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Saoa Scum wrote:No you are right i have never tried to hit a scout with a shotgun, but however ive done it several times with an AR and most of the times i end up dead, and i dont know about the situation with a heavy suit since im not using them. Would he still get killed in one shot by that shotgun if he has 2 complex armorplates to counter that? Probably live through one. But one aint enough, and fatsuits dont dodge. they can only stand and deliver.
So...we end up at the conclusion that heavies are the better option in any situation.
Not sure bout you but i would prefer to be able to take an extra shot then being able to move abit faster and get one-shotted
But im starting to realize this discussion is going nowhere, i just want a counter not a nerf
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Saoa Scum
Judge Enterprises
Li3 Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 15:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Mass driver, headshot with sniper, tank, shotgun, lav bumper.
There is no johnny one-knock unless yer like me and blast people out of sniper nests with a forge gun.
And if youre so convinced heavy is OP, try it out. give it a go.
The skillbook costs 800,000 ISK, and each fit will cost you 2-3 times what an assault fit will.
You have to pay for the privelege of being in a fatsuit.
Alright did as you adviced and this is how it turned out, my k/d ratio went up from 3,47 to 3,68 in just a couple of maps but its irrelevent
Suits i used and fits (couldnt fit duvolle AR in militia assault suit cause of CPU issues, and i have circutry 5, light weapon upgrade1)
Assault type -1
Militia Profile dampener
Militia CPU upgrade
Militia Locus Grenade
Duvolle assault rifle
Complex dmg mod
Militia shield extender
Shield: 147 Hp
Armor: 218 Hp
Total: 365 Hp
Price 72,400 Isk per fitted suit
Militia Heavy dropsuit
Miltia armor repairer
Militia Locus grenade
Duvolle assault rifle
Scrambler pistol
Complex dmg mod
Shield: 100 Hp
Armor: 609 Hp
Total: 709 Hp
Price 67,625 Isk per fitted suit
My conclusion, im just as deadly as anyone else at any range but twice as good survivability for cheaper price
"You pay for the priviliege of fatsuit" is just a bunch of crap.
If you still dont see the issue here then you are just being ignorant. My personal reflection of using the heavy suit is... its the best for sure for any situation out there except for being run over by a LAV, but its still doable.... |
Saoa Scum
Judge Enterprises
Li3 Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 15:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Saoa Scum wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Mass driver, headshot with sniper, tank, shotgun, lav bumper.
There is no johnny one-knock unless yer like me and blast people out of sniper nests with a forge gun.
And if youre so convinced heavy is OP, try it out. give it a go.
The skillbook costs 800,000 ISK, and each fit will cost you 2-3 times what an assault fit will.
You have to pay for the privelege of being in a fatsuit. Alright did as you adviced and this is how it turned out, my k/d ratio went up from 3,47 to 3,68 in just a couple of maps but its irrelevent Suits i used and fits (couldnt fit duvolle AR in militia assault suit cause of CPU issues, and i have circutry 5, light weapon upgrade1) Assault type -1 Militia Profile dampener Militia CPU upgrade Militia Locus Grenade Duvolle assault rifle Complex dmg mod Militia shield extender Shield: 147 Hp Armor: 218 Hp Total: 365 Hp Price 72,400 Isk per fitted suit
Militia Heavy dropsuit Miltia armor repairer Militia Locus grenade Duvolle assault rifle Scrambler pistol Complex dmg mod Shield: 100 Hp Armor: 609 Hp Total: 709 Hp Price 67,625 Isk per fitted suit My conclusion, im just as deadly as anyone else at any range but twice as good survivability for cheaper price "You pay for the priviliege of fatsuit" is just a bunch of crap. If you still dont see the issue here then you are just being ignorant. My personal reflection of using the heavy suit is... its the best for sure for any situation out there except for being run over by a LAV, but its still doable.... Comparing standard issue to militia issue. Derp.
Please do explain what you mean? |
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